Any pension questions? Annuities, Triple Lock, Portfolio Ideas, and How Much to Save

Susannah Streeter: Hello and welcome to the Switch Your Money On podcast. I’m Susannah Streeter – the Head of Money and Markets here at Hargreaves Lansdown and, as usual, I’m with Sarah Coles – the Head of Personal Finance – and, Sarah, it’s really marvellous to see you in person – and the rest of the podcast crew.

We will introduce everybody in just a bit. We have, though, had an eventful few weeks – not just getting the studio ready, but being knee-deep in inflation and wage data, and what it means for people.

Sarah Coles: Yeah – so, every month, there’s always a real insight into the pressures on people as well as an indication of what might happen next to interest rates. Plus, this time around, there are real implications for pensions.

Susannah Streeter: Yes – it’s opened up a big debate about the triple lock and wider questions about pensions – which is what we’re going to explore in much more detail in this episode of the Switch Your Money On podcast, which we’re calling ‘Any Pension Questions.’

Sarah Coles: Yes – so our Head of Retirement Analysis is right beside us – Helen Morrissey.

Hello, Helen.

Helen Morrissey: Hello, everybody.

Sarah Coles: And we’re pleased to say you’ll be taking us through the debate. So, Helen’s also been talking to Clare Stinton – from our Financial Wellbeing Team – who spends her days answering retirement questions. So, we’ll hear from her – plus we’ll get to grill Helen on some of the biggest retirement questions.

Susannah Streeter: Great to have you in the studio, Helen.

Also with me is Sophie Lund-Yates – our Lead Equity Analyst.

Hello, Sophie – great to have you beside me for a change.

Sophie Lund-Yates: Hi, everyone – yes, certainly a lot better here than my dining room table, which is usually where this is getting recorded – so great to be here and lovely to see you all.

Susannah Streeter: And Sophie is – as usual – going to talk us through a handful of stocks. This time those that might make up part of a retirement portfolio – and Emma Wall – our Head of Research and Analysis – will examine all of this from a funds’ perspective as well.

Sarah Coles: So, there is loads to get through, but we wanted to start with a bit of context because the triple lock debate is the result of data emerging around wages and inflation.

So, inflation defied expectations to hold firm in September – at 6.7%. While we saw welcome drops in food inflation and furniture and household goods, the impact of rising oil prices made their presence felt.

Susannah Streeter: They certainly did. Oil prices have played a massive part in stubborn inflation with the average price of petrol rising by 5.1 pence per litre between August and September – and we know that these rises have continued with Brent Crude rising above $93 a barrel by 20th October and – with everything that’s happening in the Middle East – there’s a chance even higher prices are on the way.

Petrol and diesel are the canaries in the coal mine and – as higher oil prices make their way through supply chains, it could mean inflation is hard to shift and we continue to see prices rise at pace, which will raise the threat of interest rates staying higher for longer.

Sarah Coles: Separately, we discovered that pay was ahead of inflation in the year to June to August – rising at 8.1% including bonuses, and 7.8% without – and that’s one of the fastest paces we’ve seen over the last 20 years. So, when you’ve taken inflation into account, pay – including bonuses – was up 1.3% - and, without bonuses, is up 1.1%.

However, rising wages aren’t a universal experience because an awful lot depends on the sector you work in. So, while the finance and business services sector was up 9.6% – and manufacturing up 8% – construction and wholesale, retail, hotels and restaurants all rose slower than inflation, which averaged 6.7% at the time.

So, even public sector pay – which hit a new record rise – was only a tiny fraction ahead of inflation at 6.8%. So, it means an awful lot of people are seeing their wages fall even further behind inflation.

Susannah Streeter: So, all of this opens up the debate around the triple lock – so we thought we’d bring in an expert – our very own Helen Morrissey, of course, to explain how all of this has caused so much controversy.

So, Helen, why is this such a hot topic right now?

Helen Morrissey: Thanks, Susannah.

So, currently, the State Pension rises in line with what is known as ‘The triple lock’ – as you’ve mentioned. Now, this is the highest of 2.5% average wages and CPI inflation.

This year, average wages were 8.5% over the relevant period. Now, this is much higher than both inflation and 2.5%.

This follows on from another chunk increase of 10.1% in the State Pension last year, and the issue is that we’re an aging population so more of us claim State Pension for longer, and this makes it an incredibly expensive policy to maintain.

Now, government have several levers that they can pull to try and contain the cost – one of which is to increase State Pension age – but they can only do this so many times, so we could see a different approach being taken.

Sarah Coles: So, you say, ‘Different approach’ – so what other options are there?

Helen Morrissey: One option could be to suspend the triple lock and adopt a smaller increase. So, for instance, the 8.5% figure I quoted earlier was average wages including bonuses. Now, if it opted for a figure without bonuses, then that would bring the increase down to 7.8% instead.

Now, there is precedent for the triple lock being tinkered with. During the pandemic – when the Furlough Scheme pushed up average wages – the government opted for a double lock instead and used inflation figure, so pensions got a much smaller increase than they otherwise would have done.

Susannah Streeter: What would be the impact of this, then?

Helen Morrissey: It weakens the case for the triple lock – overall – if they can be suspended, and it also brings uncertainty to pensioners. I must say, though, that this is purely speculation – we have a General Election looming, and any changes to the triple lock would prove very unpopular.

We have to wait for the government to confirm later in the autumn.

Sarah Coles: It’s a complicated process – this triple lock thing. Do you think most people understand the triple lock?

Helen Morrissey: I would say the questions I’m asked most often by people are around the State Pension. People won’t understand how it works and what they can do to boost their entitlement to it. It’s the absolute foundation of people’s retirement planning, and yet there is so much confusion about it.

Susannah Streeter: Would you say, Helen, that this confusion around the State Pension really does feed through into other areas of retirement planning?

Helen Morrissey: I absolutely would – and, on that point, I wanted to welcome our colleague, Clare Stinton, to the podcast.

Clare works on our Financial Wellbeing Team here at HL and speaks to people about retirement issues all the time.

Hi, Clare.

Clare Stinton: Thanks, Helen – I’m really pleased to be joining you on today’s podcast.

Helen Morrissey: So, Clare, tell us a bit about what you do, day-to-day, and the kinds of questions people ask you.

Clare Stinton: Essentially, everything I do, day-to-day, revolves around encouraging people to engage with their finances, and the intention behind all of this is to drive financial resilience by giving people the information and tools they need to make better informed decisions.

We host sessions for our workplace pension members covering everything from ‘How to navigate the cost-of-living crisis’ right through to ‘How to supercharge your pension.’

So, as you can imagine, we receive a really broad range of questions – but, if we hone in one pensions and retirement, common questions we get asked are:

1. How much money do I need in retirement? Or

2. What size pension pot will be enough?

3. Will the State Pension be there when I get to retirement age?

Actually, we’re hearing this sort of thing a lot more lately – with the press around the rising cost of the triple lock and the ever-increasing State Pension age – and, last but not least, is:

4. How do I track a lost pension pot? Perhaps unsurprising, given that as many as one in 20 people have a pension waiting to be found that they’ve forgotten about.

Helen Morrissey: Would you say that there are any clear themes around people’s queries – or any widely held misconceptions that you think need to be addressed?

Clare Stinton: I’ll answer this in two parts.

There’s generally a greater reluctance – or inability – to increase pension contributions. People’s finances have been really squeezed now for two-and-a-half years. First, the pandemic – now cost-of-living crisis – and income is really stretched.

We’re also hearing that people are delaying their retirement – concerned about being able to afford to retire – so working later into life than originally planned.

A key change in the last 12 months is that more people are asking about accessing their tax-free cash to pay down their mortgage. In a very low interest environment, paying more into your pension to benefit from tax relief and potential investment growth instead of paying off your mortgage was a less complex decision.

Today, it’s a different story – with mortgage rates around 5 or 6%, particularly if your fixed rate is coming to an end. This could be three or four times the interest currently being paid.

Unfortunately, misconceptions around pensions and retirement can act as a barrier to pension saving. In particular, we see confusion around defined benefit and defined contribution pensions.

A defined benefit pension is one where your pension income is based on your salary and how long you have worked with your employer. A defined contribution pension is one where your income is based on how much has been contributed and investment growth.

DC members are often scared that they could lose all their pension – having read about or heard snippets from friends about high profile DB scheme collapses – like BHS – and assume that something similar could happen to them. The reality is that, when a DB scheme collapses, the likelihood is that it would enter the Pension Protection Fund, which would protect pensions in payment – while those not in payment would get a 10% reduction.

If you are in a DC pension, your assets are ringfenced – so protected from an employer insolvency, though they will fluctuate, dependent on investment performance.

‘It’s too late to make a difference is a big, damaging untruth that we need to stamp out. It is never too late to have a positive impact on your pension. I would encourage those people closer to the desirable retirement age to view the pension as a way to boost the value of their savings.

Yes, we have higher cash interest rates now than we’ve had for the last decade, but none offer as generous tax relief as a pension.

A basic-rate taxpayer can get 20% added onto what they put in. Higher earners can achieve 40% or 45% tax relief.

Put simply, paying into a pension can redirect that money away from the hands of the taxman and into a pot for future, then – making their money go further. Remember though that, once in a pension, you can’t normally access this money until age 55 – rising to 57 in 2028. Then, you can normally access up to 25% of it, tax-free, with the rest taxed as income.

Tax and pension rules can change and benefits depend on personal circumstances.

Helen Morrissey: Thanks so much for coming on to speak to us about this, Clare.

Clare Stinton: Thanks so much for having me on – great to speak to you, Helen.

Susannah Streeter: Okay, Helen and Clare – many thanks for that – it’s really interesting at how these myths can really affect our retirement planning.

We’re hoping that you wouldn’t leave us quite yet though, Helen!

If we can put some of those top retirement questions to you, can you give us a few answers?

Helen Morrissey: Absolutely.

Susannah Streeter: Okay – so here is the first question: how much do I need to retire on?

Helen Morrissey: So, this can be a tricky one, but the Pensions and Lifetime Savings Association have come up with the Retirement Income Standards, and these can serve as a useful rule of thumb.

Now, according to the PLSA – for someone living outside of London – a minimum standard of living – and that’s an income that covers your basics with a small amount left over for occasional meals out, for instance – that would cost £12,800 a year for a single person and £19,900 a year for a couple.

Now, if you want more flexibility in retirement – such as the ability to run a car or to go on a foreign holiday – then a moderate standard of living would cost approximately £23,300 per year for a single person and £34,000 per year for a couple.

Now, a comfortable standard of living – which would be more holidays – theatre trips – is going to cost more – approximately £37,300 per year for a single person and £54,000 per year for a couple.

Now, of course, the State Pension can go a long way towards these figures – it’s currently 10,600 per year if you choose to get the full amount.

When the standards were published, the PLSA said, to achieve a moderate income in retirement, a couple sharing costs – with each in receipt of this full new State Pension – would need to accumulate a retirement pot of around £121,000 each. Now, this is based on annuity rate of £6,200 per £100,000.

Now, for a comfortable retirement level, each partner’s pension would need to be £328,000. It’s important to note that annuity rates do fluctuate, so you may get more or less for your money depending on when you decide to purchase one – and, of course, the amount you may want for your own retirement may differ depending on what you perceive as comfortable.

Sarah Coles: So, Helen, you mentioned the dreaded word ‘Annuity,’ there! I’m gonna get you to explain a little bit about those!

Helen Morrisey: Okay – thanks, Sarah!

So, an Annuity is an insurance product that takes your pension and pays you a guaranteed income for life. Now, this is very different to Income Drawdown – which is another retirement income product – where you can remain invested and choose to drawdown an income, but your income and capital can fluctuate depending on the market.

Once bought, annuities cannot be unwound, and so it’s really important to include as much information as possible in your application to make sure that you get the annuity that best meets your needs.

So, for instance, you can get annuities that will continue to pay out an income to your spouse – when you die – and these are known as Joint Life Annuities. You can also get an Enhanced Annuity that takes account of your health and lifestyle – and you might get an increased income as a result.

Different providers offer different rates, so it’s really, really important that you look across the market to get the best deal – and you can use Annuity Quote Comparison services to get a sense of what the different providers offer.

Annuities fell out of favour as they were seen as being inflexible and offering poor value for money. However, in recent years, their fortunes have revived and more people are taking a look at them. So, data from HL’s annuity search engine showed that a 65-year-old with a £100,000 pension pot could get up to £4,941 per year from annuity two years ago. However, the same person can now get up to £7,450 per year today – and that’s for a single life annuity with a five-year guarantee paid monthly in advance.

Susannah Streeter: Thanks, Helen, for all of that wealth of information – and we have already spoken quite a lot about the State Pension today – but just how much State Pension can people get – because it can vary, can’t it?

Helen Morrissey: Absolutely – so a full new State Pension is currently £203.85 per week. To qualify for any State Pension, you need to have 10 qualifying years of National Insurance contributions on your record and for the full amount, you need to have 35 years’ worth.

To check how much you’re on track to receive, it’s a good idea to get a State Pension forecast at Check your State Pension - GOV.UK (www.gov.uk) This will highlight any gaps in your record that may need to be filled. If you do have gaps, you can check to see if you’re eligible for a benefit such as Child Benefit during that time – which may come with a free National Insurance credit – and, if so, you may be able to backdate a claim.

You can also pay for voluntary National Insurance credits to plug the gaps. However, it’s really important that you check with the DWP before handing over any money to make sure that you really will benefit.

Many people are affected by a process called ‘Contracting-out,’ which is a feature of the old pension system. It has since been abolished, but many people are still affected.

So, under ‘Contracting-out,’ you opted out of what is known as a ‘State Second Pension.’ You paid less National Insurance, which may affect your State Pension entitlement – but, in return, you could receive extra from your workplace or personal pension instead.

It may be the case that, even paying for extra National Insurance contributions will not boost your State Pension amount – so it’s really important to check.

Susannah Streeter: Certainly is – and just how long does the pension need to last?

Helen Morrissey: Well, the answer is probably longer than you might think, Susannah.

So, recent data from the Office of National Statistics showed that the number of centenarians is on the rise.

According to the data on Census Day in 2021, there were 13,924 centenarians – those people aged 100 or older – living in England and Wales. Now, this is a 24.5% increase from 2011. Babies born in 2021 have a life expectancy at birth projected to be 90.5 years for females and 87.6 years for males. So, you could potentially be living 30 – or even more – years in retirement.

Sarah Coles: That’s great news on many levels, but it’s a bit expensive too! So, thanks for the whistlestop tour through pensions, Helen.

I know we’ve explored some of the rules around pensions – and how much we should be aiming to have in our pensions – but then, of course, there’s also the question of what we invest that money in.

So, let’s bring in Sophie Lund-Yates to explore some listed companies that might be interesting here.

So, Sophie, when investing for retirement, there are some things to consider that investors at a different point in life might not need – aren’t there?

I should also make it clear, first, that investing in individual shares isn’t right for everyone. It’s higher risk because your investment depends on the fate of a single company – so, if that company fails, you risk losing your whole investment.

Sophie Lund-Yates: Thanks, Sarah – yes, definitely.

So, this all comes down to time horizon – which essentially means how long you have to allow investments to grow. So, someone at retirement age – for example – has a shorter time horizon than someone just staring out – and that tends to mean investments that are less risky can be better.

So, with the shorter time horizon, you don’t have as much time to recover from volatility. It’s a time to potentially consider investing for income or dividends, rather than relying on capital growth. So, certain sectors of the market have more compelling dividend-paying ability than others – and with tobacco and some oil majors as well springing to mind here.

Now, as ever, please remember that no dividend is ever guaranteed.

Susannah Streeter: Good point – and we have talked about companies in some of these sectors in previous episodes – but there are other companies that could be better placed for income investors, aren’t there?

Sophie Lund-Yates: Absolutely – one is Defence. Developed economies are very invested in maintaining and upgrading their national defences – which feeds into more reliable demand and long-term order books, which is a rarity.

One company in this space is BAE – which has a prospective dividend yield of 3%. Now, that’s underpinned by annual free cash flow of around £2bn – and this is also helped by very high barriers to entry – and, by that, I just mean that there aren’t many competitors because of the highly specialised and expensive nature of the industry.

So, looking at the invasion of Ukraine by Russia as well – this increased the so-called ‘Threat environment’ across Europe and fed into expectations that governments would be prioritising defence capabilities more so than ever before.

That said, the level of government spending does tend to ebb and flow with different administrations and political mood, and this can see valuations fluctuate.

Sarah Coles: Thanks, Sophie – there’s loads to think about there.

Can you tell us something about Utilities?

Sophie Lund-Yates: Yes – so Utilities are a classic example of so-called ‘Income Shares.’ No matter what happens in the world, we still need to turn the lights on.

Now, with that in mind, I’ve been looking at National Grid. In it’s results published in May, National Grid’s full-year revenue rose 17% to £21.7bn. Now, underlying operating profit grew 10% to £4.6bn – ignoring the impact of exchange rates.

Now, this reflects a full-year contribution from UK Electricity Distribution as well as strong performances from the UK Electricity System Operator and Ventures Division. Now, this helped underlying Earnings Per Share – or EPS – which you might see it abbreviated to – grow from 65.3p to 69.7p.

Net debt fell 4% to £41bn – free cash flow fell from £1.2bn to £660m – and that’s as the group spent more on physical assets.

Now, as the energy landscape changes, National Grid’s full-year results showed good progress in its attempt to plant itself at the centre of The Electric Revolution. So, its strategic pivot is now complete with its portfolio of assets now weighted 70% towards electricity – and not stopping there, capital investment increased by 8% to £7.7bn last year – in a bid to drive the energy transition forward. Now, that number’s expected to rise above £8bn this year – with a good chunk of that earmarked for the decarbonisation of energy networks.

In return for investing those billions to maintain and upgrade its infrastructure, regulators allow National Grid to earn a reasonable profit – with the potential to earn more if it exceeds those targets.

Now, that translates into the predictable revenues and low borrowing costs, and feeds into what should be a relatively dependable dividend. So, the prospective yield on offer is 6.1% - but remember, yields are variable and not a reliable indicator of future income.

So, something to keep an eye on is the impact of higher interest rates on the cost of debt. So, finance costs rose 43% last year as repayments index linked debt rose. The rise was absorbed – and then, some, by higher profits – but it is something to keep an eye on.

Susannah Streeter: So, there’s Defence – there’s Utilities – what other sector have you had your eye on?

Sophie Lund-Yates: I’ve been looking at a consumer goods giant – which has the same core element, which is the fact that it sells essentials – which makes revenue easier to map.

So, I’ve specifically looked at Reckitt – which makes household and hygiene staples like Airwick, Harpic and Vanish – as well as Durex products. So, price hikes remain the aim of the game for Reckitt – helping to push the top line higher despite falling volumes.

So – digging a little deeper into the numbers – the drop in volumes comes mainly from the hygiene division as demand for these products normalises, post-pandemic. Reckitt has reported third-quarter net revenue of £3.6bn – and that reflects Like for Like – or LFL – sales growth of 3.4%. Higher prices were able to more than offset a 4.1% dip in volume – a larger decline than expected.

Now, LFL sales growth is driven by hygiene and health – with over-the-counter medicines – Finish and Lysol ranges as the standouts. Volumes in nutrition were the main detractor – as performance lapped very tough comparable periods due to inflated sales last year as competitors faced supply issues.

Now, managements announced a £1bn buy-back to be completed over the next 12 months, and reiterated full-year guidance as well.

Now, debt’s a touch high compared to profit, so that is something to keep an eye on at the next set of results.

Susannah Streeter: Okay, Sophie – thank you very much.

Really great to speak to you here in the studio – and please note that this is not a personal advice – or a recommendation to buy, sell, or hold any investment. No view is given on the present or future value – or price of any investment – and investors should form their own view on any proposed investment.

So, now, let’s move onto funds, and we can bring in Emma Wall, who’s been looking at this from a funds perspective.

Hello, there, Emma – so can you tell us a little bit about all of this – and what’s different about choosing investments in retirement compared to other times in your life?

Emma Wall: Of course – so, in retirement, you can’t top-up investment losses with salary. So, investment selections have a greater focus – or should have a greater focus – on capital preservation – which means usually more fixed income and lower risk assets over shares.

You, also, may be looking to supplement your State Pension – or workplace pension – with an income from your investment. So, we think assets which pay a yield should feature.

Sarah Coles: So, with that in mind, can you take us through your first fund you want to look at?

Emma Wall: The first one is Royal London Corporate Bond.

Investment grade corporate bond funds hold bonds issued by companies at the higher end of the credit quality spectrum – so these are companies that are more likely to be able to repay their debts to bond holders. As such, they tend to offer lower yields than bonds issued by companies that are less likely to pay off their debts, but prices of these bonds tend to be less volatile over time. So, we think that a corporate bond fund could be a good addition to a diversified portfolio invested to generate an income.

Susannah Streeter: What about this fund in particular, then?

Emma Wall: We rate Shalin Shah and the Bond Team at Royal London highly. They’re prepared to invest in parts of the bond market a lot of other investors ignore – and, while their additional research throws up opportunities to boost returns, they can add risks. So, we view this as a more adventurous corporate bond fund.

It could, therefore, offer a slightly higher yield and generate greater long-term performance potential – but, of course, there are never any guarantees – and the Fund Manager can take charges from capital which boost the income, but can reduce the potential for capital growth.

Sarah Coles: So, you mentioned the aim of capital preservation – that’s a priority for your second option as well, isn’t it?

Emma Wall: Yes, it is – our second pick is Troy Trojan.

So, this is a total return fund – which could be a good choice because they’re typically more conservative – which is the sort of thing that you want in retirement – and they normally hold a mix of shares and bonds and commodities – and also property and currencies. So, this aims to offer modest growth over the long-term and helps shelter money when the stock market falls. They aren’t going to keep up with the stock market, however, when they rally – of course, no guarantees.

Susannah Streeter: So, tell us more about Troy Trojan.

Emma Wall: Troy Trojan is run by an experienced Fund Manager – in Sebastian Lyon – and part of the fund invest in shares of well-established countries – like the US and the UK – and some smaller companies too, which can be more volatile and, therefore, higher risk.

The rest of the fund is invested in UK Government bonds – or gilts – and US inflation-linked bonds – which could provide some shelter from rising inflation. It also holds gold and cash – which can help offer some stability when times are tough – like now! – in the economy and stock markets.

Overall, the fund holds a smaller number of investments – which can mean that each one has a meaningful impact on performance and can add risk.

Susannah Streeter: So, what about your third choice?

Emma Wall: Our third pick is Artemis Income.

So, these managers aim to outperform the FTSE All-Share over the long-term while providing a growing income and dividend yield above what’s offered by the Index. This means they look for businesses they believe can pay a stable and sustainable level of income through the market cycle regardless of the economic backdrop.

The team look for companies with a reoccurring revenues which they believe will still have consumers, profits – and, therefore, dividends in the future – regardless of disruption – although nothing is guaranteed.

This is an equity fund, however – so, in retirement, it’s really important to diversify this selection with income paid by either bond funds or other lower risk investments – and it’s worth noting that the fund does take charges from capital – which can increase the yield, but it does reduce the potential for capital growth.

Sarah Coles: So, for your final option, there’s an income fund?

Emma Wall: Yes – our fourth and final choice is Baillie Gifford Sustainable Income – which invests across three broad investment areas: Shares, Property and Infrastructure, and Bonds. The aim of this fund is to increase the distribution paid to investors by more than inflation – no mean feat at the moment – over the long-term.

While the income provided by this fund may not be the highest available, the focus on income across everything it invests in mean that there’s more chance you can expect the income to be consistent – although nothing is guaranteed.

As with the Royal London and Artemis funds mentioned, charges are taken from capital – which can reduce the potential for capital growth. The long-term asset allocation is equally split over three areas, but the property and infrastructure section is accessed through listed companies. This means that most of the fund is actually invested in shares – and this fund is one of Baillie Gifford’s sustainably-labelled funds – meaning that ESG – or environmental, social and governance considerations – are a meaningful part of how they assess investments for it.

I should also add that fund invests in the shares of Hargreaves Lansdown.

Susannah Street: Okay, Emma – thank you so much for joining us. Really interesting – that whole rundown, there – see you next time!

I should add – as always – that there are no guarantees with investing. All investments can fall as well as rise in value, so you could get back less than you put in.

Before investing in a fund, you should make sure the fund’s objectives align with your own, and understand the fund’s specific risks. Any new investment should form part of a diversified portfolio – and, if you’re not sure what’s right for your circumstances, you should ask for advice.

You’re listening to Switch Your Money on from Hargreaves Lansdown.

Now, to end this episode, we’re going to finish with a quick stat on the State Pension. We talked a lot about this a little earlier – how much did you take in, Sarah?

So – because a lot of the debate centres around life expectancy… it’s obviously risen since the State Pension was introduce in 1948, but can you guess at what age a 65-year-old – at the time – would have expected to live to?

Sarah Coles: That’s quite an involved question!.

Looking back – so that’s my great-grandparents’ generation – so that’s quite a long time ago! I do know that, actually, some of them lived to quite ripe old ages, but I think that was really unusual – so I guess they’d probably lived to their 70s.

Susannah Streeter: You’re in the right ballpark because the average they could expect was 78-and-a-half, in fact. Now, for men, it’s 82-and-a-half – and, for women, almost 86.

Sarah Coles: That is a massive change – and it’s also a huge amount more.

Susannah Streeter: It certainly is – and I think this debate over it will rage until we hit retirement – at the very least! – but I can’t ever imagine not working – in some shape or form – although I’m not quite sure I’d be able to keep up the same pace this job demands – when I’m in my golden years – but you never know, though.

It is lovely, though, to see you all here in the studio today. We’ll have to make this a regular occurrence.

Sarah Coles: Yes – definitely. I will be back – got more heating than in my house, for a start.

Susannah Streeter: Like I said, significantly better than my dining room table!

Helen Morrissey: Definitely much better than my desk at home as well.

Susannah Streeter: Well, that’s all from us for this time – but, before we go, we do need to remind you that this was recorded on October 30th 2023, and all information was correct at the time of recording.

Sarah Coles: Nothing in this podcast is personal advice – you should seek advice if you’re not sure what’s right for you.

Unlike the security offered by cash, investments rise and fall in value, so you could get back less than you invest – and past performance is not a guide to the future.

Susannah Streeter: This is not advice or a recommendation to buy, sell, or hold any investment. No view is given on the present or future value – or price of any investment – and investors should form their own view on any proposed investment.

Sarah Coles: And this hasn’t been prepared in accordance with legal requirements designed to promote the independence and investment research and is considered a marketing communication.

Susannah Streeter: Non-independent research is not subject to FCA rules prohibiting dealing ahead of research. However, HL has put controls in place – including dealing restrictions, physical and information barriers – to manage potential conflicts of interest presented by such dealing.

Sarah Coles: You can see our full, non-independent research disclosure on our website for more information.

So, all that’s left is for me to thank our guests – Helen, Clare, Sophie, Emma, and our Producer, Elizabeth Hotson.

Susannah Streeter: Thank you so much for listening. We’ll be back again soon – goodbye!