Deathcleaning and Sadmin

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The information provided is for general guidance only and is not legal advice. You may wish to seek advice from a solicitor or qualified professional when setting up a lasting power of attorney. Circumstances vary and the right approach will depend on your personal situation.

Full podcast episode transcript

Helen

Hello and welcome to the Switch Your Money On podcast from Hargreaves Lansdown. I’m Helen Morrissey, Head of Retirement Analysis…

Clare

and I'm Clare Stinton, Senior Personal Finance Analyst. Sadmin. Admittedly not the clearest of podcast episode titles, but we've got an incredibly important area of financial planning to discuss today. Now, if you're wondering what's sadmin is, it's exactly what it sounds like. The word sad and admin joined together to describe the life admin tasks many of us are guilty of putting off because they're uncomfortable, emotional, or complex. Maybe they're all three, but it can also refer to the mountain of admin that a person has to complete after a loved one dies. So, things like registering the death, closing accounts, probate, counselling, utilities, there's a lot. But when we were talking about ideas for this episode, our colleague Anna pointed out that they actually have a particular word for this in Sweden “döstädning” which translates as death cleaning, and it refers to a thoughtful process where the individual gets their affairs in order as they get older. So, things like organising your possessions and financial admin to reduce the burden on loved ones after you pass away. So we thought this would be a great topic for today's episode.

Helen

Absolutely Clare and I do think, as you say, when it comes to sadmin, there's so many elements about the whole sadmin thing that I think we can look to fill many a podcast in the future with different elements of that.

Clare

So, as you've just said, Helen, lots of different examples of sadmin we could fill lots of different episodes, but there's one particular piece of sadmin we'd like to shine a spotlight on. Isn’t there Helen?

Helen

Absolutely. So, as we said, sadmin is the term that we use for doing those financial jobs that you would really rather not. And one of the key pieces of sadmin is making a lasting power of attorney. Now, no one wants to think that there might be a time when they can't make their own decisions, but it does need to be planned for. So, a lasting power of attorney is actually going to be one of the most important documents you'll ever make.

Clare

We all know that we should have a will, which is another piece of sadmin. The purpose being that it confirms how you'd like your assets divided after your death. But arguably, a lasting power of attorney is potentially even more important because it can protect both you and your loved ones whilst you're still alive. It's fair to say that it might not just be the person looking to put these things in place who feels uncomfortable. It can be really hard to get family members to open up as well.

Helen

Absolutely. So having to do these things can open up really big questions about what you want to happen in terms of how you want to be treated at a point where you can't speak up for yourself anymore. So it gives you the opportunity to tell people how you want to be treated and cared for, in the event that you lose capacity and say how you want your money to be managed for instance. Leaving these things unspoken can lead to misunderstandings and even family fallouts.

Clare

It's really clear that these are uncomfortable conversations that are well worth having. Do you think it would be fair to say there's also an element of the fear of the unknown? So, in terms of how just to go about these processes, it's not a piece of admin that's really ever talked about in friendship circles, let alone the emotional toll that comes with it. But hopefully this episode will shed some light today. And I think you've got your own recent experience of filling out a lasting power of attorney for your mum. How did that go?

Helen

Yes. So, it's a very complex process, to be honest with you, Clare. So, I just want to do a really quick recap on what a lasting power of attorney actually is. So, it enables you to name a person or several people who you want to be able to make decisions for you in the event that you can't make them yourself. So if you were to develop dementia, for instance, there's two different types of lasting power of attorney, one covering health and welfare and one covering finance and property. You can have either or both. And in Scotland they are known as a continuing power of attorney.

Clare

Okay, so Helen, you've mentioned dementia as a time when you might want to have a lasting power of attorney. And typically, dementia is more prevalent in people in their 70s and 80s. However, a lasting power of attorney is not just something to consider when you get older, is it? I mean, I don't want to sound all doom and gloom, but we could all get ill or have a serious accident at any time, so it's well worth considering even when you're young.

Helen

Yeah, you're absolutely right, Clare. So having that lasting power of attorney in place can make sure that your attorney can pay vital bills. You know, such as your mortgage. Or make decisions around your care. And this could range from what you want your medical plan to look like, if ongoing care is needed, to deciding where you're going to live or, you know, arranging care support with a health visitor, it covers a multitude of things.

Clare

So those are really big, life changing decisions. So, it's a lot of responsibility. People often don't think to set up a lasting power until it's needed. And by that point, actually it's usually too late because Helen, as you point out, a lasting power of attorney has to be set up while the person still has mental capacity. Once capacity is lost, it's no longer an option. So, what are the consequences if you don't have one in place?

Helen

So, if you were to lose mental capacity and a lasting power of attorney isn't in place, then your loved ones would need to apply to the court of protection for a deputyship or guardianship order. This is very own onerous. It's a really stressful process and it can prove costly. It can also mean that the person appointed as the deputy or guardian is not the person that otherwise would have been chosen, and they might not even have the insight to know what you know, the donor or granter’s wishes would have been.

Clare

Okay, so if there's no lasting power of attorney in place, your loved ones have no automatic legal right to manage your affairs or make decisions on your behalf, so you effectively lose control over who makes those decisions. Helen, you mentioned that you found the process quite complex. Can you tell us a bit about it?

Helen

Sure. So, I would say, an important thing to mention is that you can get a solicitor to help you out with these forms, or you can opt to do them yourself. So, we did them. I did my mum's, you know, ourselves. The forms can be found online. And you can either fill them in online, or you can print them out and then fill them in. It's important to say in Scotland your application needs to be certified by a solicitor or a doctor, and they'll interview you to make sure that you understand what you're doing, and then they'll sign the form. So, as you say, from the very beginning, it's quite complicated. You need to, you know, there's a lot of moving parts there. I would say the forms are very long and there is a lot of jargon and rules. So, if you’re doing it yourself, it's well worth really taking the time and reading the guidance that surrounds it. And I'm really happy that I did take the time to do that, because you really need to think it through. You know, there's plenty of room to make mistakes, and a recent freedom of information request that I made to the Office of the Public Guardian showed that almost 50,000 lasting powers of attorney applications were rejected in 2024 to 25.

Clare

In terms of guidance, MoneyHelper and Age UK are great places to start. But Helen, I know you've also recently put together an article which is now on our website for those that are looking for more information. There's also a bit of a halfway house where you don't have to go it alone or seek help from a solicitor. There are specialist firms who will send a representative to meet with you and your loved ones, and they will then draft a lasting power of attorney on notes that they take from that meeting. So, they really do specialise in producing those notes and forms. It does come with a cost, but it's not usually as expensive as a solicitor’s service. So going back to the number of applications that were rejected in 2024/25, 50,000 is a huge number. What were the key challenges?

Helen

Okay, so the first thing is choosing the people that you want to be your attorneys. They need to be over the age of 18. They need to have mental capacity. And they need to be someone who you really, really trust. So, these are the people that you're entrusting to make the big decisions about your future. So, you do need to consider that choice really carefully. I would say it's a good idea to talk through your decision with loved ones so that they understand why you've made your choice. And I'd say that this is something that we spent a lot of time on with my mum, you know, explaining what was happening and why. You need to let people know what's going on. So, there's no nasty surprises, and they get the opportunity to ask questions. It goes without saying that you need to tell the attorney before you fill in the form that you've nominated them, because it's a really big responsibility, and they need to be comfortable with what you're asking them to do. Now you can have more than one attorney. In terms of how they make decisions, they can do it jointly, in which case all attorneys must agree on a course of action before you go ahead with it. The other option is to do it jointly and severally. And this means attorneys can make decisions on their own, but also together.

Clare

Okay. So, it's really important that would be attorneys understand what their responsibilities are. Otherwise, there is a risk of things going wrong.

Helen

Absolutely. So, what I would say is first and foremost, you know, decisions should always be made in the best interests of the person who is making the lasting power of attorney. Now in England and Wales they're called the donor. In Scotland they're called the grantor. And you need to include the donor grantor in any decision making as much as possible. And this is where it's really important to talk through what is needed from the attorneys in advance. Because as I say they're the people making the decisions. So, if you can have a chat with them beforehand before you put that lasting power of attorney in place, they're going to have a better handle of what your wishes really are, and that's going to be really useful in helping them to make those decisions.

Clare

So, your wishes and intents need to be really, really clear.

Helen

Absolutely.

Clare

You've mentioned the word donor there as the person making the lasting power of attorney. Who else is involved in the process?

Helen

So, there's a few people. So, there's the donor otherwise known as the grantor in Scotland. And they're the person that wants a lasting power of attorney put in place. Then of course you've got the attorneys. And these are the people that you want to make the decisions. For the purpose of filling out the forms, you'll also need someone to act as a certificate provider. Now, this is someone who is known to the donor who can sign to say that the donor understands what they're doing and that they aren't being coerced into signing these documents. This person must have known the donor for at least two years, and they can't be an attorney or be related to either the donor or the attorney. So, an example could be a family friend or a doctor. Now signatures will also need to be witnessed. But what I can say is attorneys can witness each other signing the document. It's all quite complicated.

Clare

That sounds like quite a bit to organise. So, working out who signs what, and don't they have to be signed in a particular order as well?

Helen

Yes, they do. And this is something that I took a lot of time over with my mum's application. So, there’s strict rules as to the order in which a lasting power of attorney must be signed and dated. Making a mistake could see the form returned to you. You also need to make sure that you sign exactly where specified and that you use full names where needed, rather than initials. As I said earlier, it's worth taking the time to make sure that you get this right. Otherwise, you might find that the forms are returned to you, and it just adds length of time to the process.

Clare

Okay. A top tip there, and perhaps also partly explains why so many forms were rejected back in 2024/25.

Helen

Agreed.

Clare

Just out of interest, how long would you say the entire process takes? So, kind of getting the forms, working out what the person's wishes are. Getting that all documented. Sending those off all the signing at the different various points of the individuals.

Helen

I think it depends. So, for me, I don't live near my mum. Yeah. So, you know, I go home every few weeks and it was taking that time to talk through things with her. That took time, but it was also talking to my siblings about what was going on, why it was going on and answering their questions. So, we actually spent a good few weeks discussing those things before we then started filling out the forms and everything. So for me, it took quite a long time just because people were here, there and everywhere, you know, around the country. Obviously, if you live very, very close by your parents or whoever you’re doing a lasting power of attorney for, it's no doubt going to be a lot quicker. So, I think I think you've got to go with the different parties. So, I really took my time with my mum so that she understood what was going on and when.

Clare

I think even if you perhaps live close by, perhaps baking in a couple of months, to get something like this sorted gives people the ability to kind of sit on it, work out what they feel is best, how comfortable they are with it. We've already said it's quite an emotional process, so I think it's definitely something to flag, but it's not necessarily going to happen overnight. But actually, you need a decent amount of time to involve everyone that needs to be involved and make sure that everyone is comfortable and aware of what the next step is.

Helen

Absolutely. So again, you know, you have to go into some you know, really like difficult subjects. So it’s talking about, you know, how you would want to be cared for if you lost capacity. And that can be quite hard to kind of get your head around and to consider. And the whole idea that there could come a time where I would have to deal with paying my mum's bills for and things like that. It's a lot to get your head around. So, as I say, don't rush into it. Consider everything. And for the person who's doing the list of power of attorney, they just need to be really happy with what they've done and that they've given the instructions that they're comfortable with.

Clare

Absolutely. So, anything else that people need to be aware of?

Helen

Yes. So, another thing that I really wanted to mention, and it might seem a bit strange, but it's not to use Tippex or pencil when filling out the form. Using either of these can make it quite difficult to see if a lasting power of attorney has been amended, and by who. So, the preference is to sign in black pen. Now you can also complete the forms online, which I felt really cut down on the potential to make mistakes because you're only really writing on the form with signatures and dates and things like that, rather than having to write out the whole thing. If you do make a mistake, you need to cross it out with a pen. Write the correct details as close to the relevant box as possible, and then everyone involved in each section needs to initial each change. Or we can be quite onerous.

Clare

Wow. I’d completely forgotten about Tipp-Ex. I don't think I've seen any since my school days. That is all very specific. But then I guess you have to be. And the rationale absolutely makes sense. It also is really important to be very clear in the instructions you give in your power of attorney. So, this could be around the level of care that you want to receive. For instance, receiving life sustaining treatment as part of the health and welfare power of attorney. You need to be very clear about the decisions you want your attorney to make in these particular circumstances. And if it looks like any of the instructions are conflicting, then you could have the forms returned to you. That's right, isn't it?

Helen

Yeah. That's true. Now what I also wanted to add as well, I think particularly around like health and welfare, it's really important that you discuss what you need your attorneys to do to make sure that they're comfortable with what you're asking them to do, because they might not be comfortable, who might have certain beliefs and want things to go a certain way. And you have to make sure that your attorneys are happy to carry that out, you know, when the time comes. So, it's really important to have those big conversations. But what I would also say, so again, when it comes to kind of, you know, getting the form submitted, it's really important not to mix up the pages in the application. So, these application forms are long documents. And so, it's really important to make sure that you don't submit the pages in the wrong order or remove any pages from the application. This is particularly the case if you are going to submit forms for both financial affairs and health and welfare lasting powers of attorney together, you need to check the numbering on each page before you submit the forms to the Office of the Public Guardian.

Clare

Okay, so check the forms. Make sure, especially if you're submitting both, that they're all numbered correctly and they are orderly sent across. And don't forget a really crucial step. If you are going to use a power of attorney, then you need to make sure it has been registered with the Office of the Public Guardian. The donor can apply to register their own lasting power of attorney, or the attorney can do it for them. So, it can take several weeks for an application to be registered. If your attorney has applied for it to be registered, you will be told and you will have the opportunity to object, if it's not what you want.

Helen

Yes. That's right. So, I also wanted to say as well that relationships can and do evolve, and you might get to a point where you decide to remove an attorney. So if you've still got mental capacity then you can do that. This can be done in a short statement to the Office of the Public Guardian. It's called a partial deed of revocation. If you go to the Gov.uk website and search for “removing an attorney”, then it will give you the exact wording that you can use to do this.

Clare

That's a really good point, Helen. Is there anything else that needs to be done before a lasting power of attorney can be used?

Helen

So, the lasting power of attorney can be accessed online, but it can also be kept in paper form if needed. And you can confirm that a copy of your lasting power of attorney is genuine by certifying it. The attorney can then use that copy when dealing with various providers, like banks, for instance, and that's to prove that they are able to make decisions on your behalf. If you've still got mental capacity, you can certify the copy yourself. Otherwise, someone like a solicitor can do it for you.

Clare

Very useful. What about costs? Are there any costs associated with doing a lasting power of attorney?

Helen

Yeah, there are. So, it costs £92 to register each power of attorney. Although you can claim for a reduction or an exemption if you are on a low income. If you use a solicitor, then there will be extra costs associated with that. And if you make mistakes on the form and need to resubmit, you may also have an extra cost associated with that. So it goes to my point of how it pays to take the time to read these forms and make use of any accompanying guidance. It really will cut down on the chance of making an error.

Clare

Thanks, Helen. That was a really insightful deep dive on lasting power of attorneys, and we hope that it shed light on a topic for everyone listening that that is not often discussed. That is all for this week. But before we go, we should remind you that this was recorded on the 8th of June 2026 and that all information was correct at the time of recording. Next week, Anna Macdonald and Matt Britzman will be back with an investment special.

Helen

Nothing in this podcast is personal advice. If you're unsure about what's right for you and your circumstances, you should seek advice. So all that's left for us now is to thank our producer, Elizabeth Hotson.

Clare

And to thank you all very much for tuning in. We'll be back again soon. Bye bye.

Helen

Goodbye.